Posts by Franklin Massey

61

Wow, This is Getting Tougher!

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i'm having a really hard time giving my meeting parts.

i had a service meeting part this week and i could hardly get through it.

i am no longer convinced of some of the things jws teach and so i try to either eliminate those things from my parts, or reword them so that i'm not speaking about that which i do not personally believe.

Franklin Massey

Jeff said, The other thing is [and this will be hard for you to actually believe at this point I imagine]: Your journey is just underway. You don't know where you will be in a year, and certainly not where you will be in seven or ten. I imagined at the moment I discovered that the Jw's were not the 'truth' that I would leave eventually. But I never believed that I would eventually reject all religion, and that I would someday question and then adjust my entire view of the god concept too. But I did. And I have never been happier in my life for having allowed myself to become myself.

Not hard to imagine at all. It's happening now. I don't consider myself religious. "Religion is a snare and a racket," right? If and when I leave, I'll never sign up on another religious group's roster. My concept of God is uniquely mine and should not be dictated by anyone else. Right now, after much research, meditation, and honest soul-searching, I would fall in the category of strong agnostic. I don't think we can define God, let alone say what kind of movies/education/health care/job/clothing/etc. it would approve of. To put a face on God seems disrespectful of what God could be. How arrogant it is to minimize the largeness of God (whatever God is) down to a human level.

As for the journey aspect, the concept of never knowing the answers to these big metaphysical questions is thrilling to me. I've embraced it fully. I enjoy the prospect of spending the rest of my life searching for something that I may never find. Where the tension resides is being a part of a religion that pretends to know who God is and what his plan is. Sure some of these religious interpretations and concepts are fun to think about and can serve as a sort of mental exercise. Could they be true? Maybe. Not likely though. No harm is hypothesizing but I feel it crosses the line when someone tries to present it as fact.

80

What is it with all the men waking up but the wives stay in? Why is it the opposite for me?

by Cadellin in

this is something i've thought about for a while now.

it seems like the same story on this board over and over--the husband, who also might be an elder, ms, etc.--starts having doubts and researching, aka miseryloveselders and franklin massey and others.

he starts to smell the coffee and realizes that this organization isn't what it claims to be.

Franklin Massey

Crisis said, Emotion many times overrides logic and that could be why it seems that a woman does not wake up. But I have realized one thing. My wife DOES listen and even thinks about what I have said. She brings up things that I have mentioned and admits that she agrees with some of them and is bothered by things she has observed herself now.

inbetween said, However, often after some discussions, where I try to help open her eyes, and even if she disagrees on the spot, later on she admits, thinking about it and its bugging her, that the org says this or does that. and sometimes she even surprises me with "independant" thoughts, that even I did not think about. I commend her for that, and we openly discuss doctrine and other things.

Same here. She is getting comfortable enough to openly express obvious flaws she notices in the doctrine. After some of our more intense discussions, I have learned that she had already come to some conclusions of her own way before I started having doubts. The difference was that she accepted them and carried on. She was able to reconcile the faults under the premise of, "Make the truth your own." For her, making the truth your own means understanding it all in your own unique way. I, on the other hand, had an emotional response to learning the truth about The Truth. I felt cheated and angry.

61

Wow, This is Getting Tougher!

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i'm having a really hard time giving my meeting parts.

i had a service meeting part this week and i could hardly get through it.

i am no longer convinced of some of the things jws teach and so i try to either eliminate those things from my parts, or reword them so that i'm not speaking about that which i do not personally believe.

Franklin Massey

Again, thanks for all of the comments. Some days, I feel like I do need to be in a hurry to make a decision. I'm a solutions guy. I like closure. This is certainly a test of patience.

80

What is it with all the men waking up but the wives stay in? Why is it the opposite for me?

by Cadellin in

this is something i've thought about for a while now.

it seems like the same story on this board over and over--the husband, who also might be an elder, ms, etc.--starts having doubts and researching, aka miseryloveselders and franklin massey and others.

he starts to smell the coffee and realizes that this organization isn't what it claims to be.

Franklin Massey

Good observations Blondie. One thing you said though stood out to me...

But if a man is a jw and has progressed to the position of MS or elder, certainly that shows he doesn't just have a passive approach to his religion as some sociological studies say men in general have.

A lot of this "progress" isn't religiously based, it's organizationally based. JW males are constantly being told to reach out for greater service. There is a ladder to be climbed and every congregation is structured around constant recruitment and promotion. If a male is able but doesn't reach out, he gets the guilt trip. A male could easily be so busy with responsibilities in the congregation that he has very little time to ever question his beliefs. Think of the terms "company man" and "worker bee." That's what a lot of our brothers are.

61

Wow, This is Getting Tougher!

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i'm having a really hard time giving my meeting parts.

i had a service meeting part this week and i could hardly get through it.

i am no longer convinced of some of the things jws teach and so i try to either eliminate those things from my parts, or reword them so that i'm not speaking about that which i do not personally believe.

Franklin Massey

It could be worse, Franklin - I had to give the memorial when I no longer believed in the literal 144,000.

Yikes!

curious asked, I wonder how many like us there are here

There are quite a few. I've had some much needed private conversations on here with Brothers in similar situations. It's amazing reading other's posts and feeling like they wrote them for you.

80

What is it with all the men waking up but the wives stay in? Why is it the opposite for me?

by Cadellin in

this is something i've thought about for a while now.

it seems like the same story on this board over and over--the husband, who also might be an elder, ms, etc.--starts having doubts and researching, aka miseryloveselders and franklin massey and others.

he starts to smell the coffee and realizes that this organization isn't what it claims to be.

Franklin Massey

For me, the deeper I got in the Org, the more flaws I saw. The more meeting parts I had to prepare, the less certain doctrines made sense. The more questions the friends or householders asked me, the more research I did - and the more research I did, the more doubts I had. The more Bible studies I conducted, the less sure I was of what I was selling these people. In the beginning of my departure from the total JW doctrinal package, I did everything by the book. Study, prayer, meditation. The more I studied, prayed, and meditated, the more the WT's version of "truth" faded away. I didn't end up here until I was already waaaaay out of the JW mindset.

In one of my other posts, where I was lamenting my situation, a female poster mentioned that as far as public apperances go, it's easier for a sister to fade. She has less skin in the Organizational game. I think this is a sad fact. Sad because if the Org really wanted to grow, they would let women do more instead of lowering them to second string status.

My wife is slowly waking up too but unlike me, she is more comfortable in her individual beliefs because she doesn't have to teach the congregation. She doesn't have to shepherd the congregation. She is happy just going along knowing that she doesn't agree with everything the Governing Body puts into print. When I have trouble preparing a meeting part that contains elements that I don't personally believe to be true, she calmly tells me, "Leave it out." The biggest area where we don't see eye to eye is in how the Org deals with those who disagree with its teachings. She thinks that JWs can hold doctrinal differences in the same compartment as they hold conscience matters like certain areas of entertainment, health care choices, alcohol consumption, etc. According to her, if I don't believe that Christ was enthroned in 1914, that's my business and to avoid offending anyone, I should just keep that to myself. The problem I have with this is that not only are we expected to believe in 1914 (or any official doctrine), we are expected to tell others to believe it. We are told to give them magazines and books containing that information. No one really cares what movie I saw or what band I like and in the Big Picture, none of that matters. Those are conscience matters. But doctrine is different. It's much more serious.

12

How the hell was True Grit rated PG-13?

by sabastious in

jw
friends

the movie opens up with three men being hung and the camera angle leaves nothing to be desired.

then it's pretty much nothing but crazy fun violence from start to end; some of it was pretty grizzly.. don't get me wrong, flipping hell of a movie... but it's weird that it somehow got a pg-13 rating.. -sab.

Franklin Massey

No sex. No language. Just violence. One "F" word or nude scene and the MPAA would have given it an "R."

61

Wow, This is Getting Tougher!

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i'm having a really hard time giving my meeting parts.

i had a service meeting part this week and i could hardly get through it.

i am no longer convinced of some of the things jws teach and so i try to either eliminate those things from my parts, or reword them so that i'm not speaking about that which i do not personally believe.

Franklin Massey

Thanks for sharing, Q. I'm having a rough time sitting in the crowd too.

I had a good friend, very zealous, very hard-working, who one day just up and stopped being a JW. He had priveleges, worked in assembly and convention departments, set a fine example for other young brothers and was about to be appointed an MS. I couldn't believe that he could just quit with no notice. I asked him why he quit.

He said, "I had to face the fact that there is more truth out there. We don't own truth and I can be party to the claim that we do."

I asked, "But you were doing so well. So many priveleges. So active. You study more than any one else I know."

He said, "I was just going through the motions, hoping these feelings would go away. But I couldn't run away from the truth."

Still gives me chills when I think about out. I couldn't relate then. I just thought he wanted to be "worldly." Now, I undertstand.

61

Wow, This is Getting Tougher!

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i'm having a really hard time giving my meeting parts.

i had a service meeting part this week and i could hardly get through it.

i am no longer convinced of some of the things jws teach and so i try to either eliminate those things from my parts, or reword them so that i'm not speaking about that which i do not personally believe.

Franklin Massey

I've tried to subtly use liberal terminology and leave certain key JW scriptures undefined but my experience has been that people don't seem to pay much attention. They know what they know and worship on repeat mode. I think the active JWs on this board pay way more attention at the meetings than the average JW.

Hey Billy, maybe I could just get removed. The decision was made for me. Kidding. I don't want to feed the rumor mill.

stuckin, MY WIFE IS PREGNANT?!!! !?!? Thanks for breaking the news before she could. You're fast. Haha! Did I say something that sounded like my wife is pregnant or were you suggesting I knock her up as an excuse to step down?

Jeff, you said something that really cut through the fog for me. Everything else is a ruse, playing with others and your own situation. I'm on here asking for suggestions on how to essentially trick people. That's kind of messed up. I try to brand it as some honorable endeavor but if I'm living a lie, then I'm also bringing other people into my lie with me.

Accepting real truth was difficult for me at first but once I faced it head on, I felt better about it. Life took on new and exciting meaning for me. Maybe it will be the same thing if I step down.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions so far. That comment from Jeff though, wow. I'm not promising anything but I have a lot to think about.

61

Wow, This is Getting Tougher!

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i'm having a really hard time giving my meeting parts.

i had a service meeting part this week and i could hardly get through it.

i am no longer convinced of some of the things jws teach and so i try to either eliminate those things from my parts, or reword them so that i'm not speaking about that which i do not personally believe.

Franklin Massey

Thanks Clarity. You're right. I was on the "climb the Orgazational ladder" fast track when I started doing the deep research that made me question my beliefs. The momentum is unbelievable though, especially when you're in an area where help is needed. I just kept piling on the responsibilities and assignments. Now I'm in so deep. If I leave, there will be a gaping hole. When we miss even one or two meetings for vacation or sickness the friends come up and say how much they missed us and how they wish I would have been able to handle this part or that assignment. Flattering and heartbreaking.

We wanted to switch halls a couple of times but right when we are about to pull the trigger, a young MS/pioneer couple moves away, an elderly servant dies, or an elder's family goes into crisis. Then we end up picking up even more responsibilities. We are a shrinking hall and all of the brothers are maxed out with duties. Last year an elder from another hall tried to recruit us to their hall. Our PO overheard the conversation and clearly stated that we are needed here and that they can't lose us.

The shortened public talks have helped. I was happy to cut out a big section on 1914 and the 144,000 from one of my outlines.

Miz, Cuz see, when I say "after the meeting", I'm not lying because I'm generally ecstatic that the meeting is over. You can do that with Service Meeting parts too. Instead of saying, "isn't field service invigorating?", you can say, "don't you feel good after you're done with field service?" You do feel good "after" field service, cuz you hated every second of it from the time you got up in the morning, to meeting with the group, to knocking on the doors of an apathetic neighborhood. I needed that laugh! Thanks!

Sometimes I look out in to the audience at the blank faces and I just want to cry. I want to say, "I have doubts. Maybe you do too. It's OK. God isn't going to destroy us for it. Let's start talking about this stuff together."